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	<title>Comments on: Gun Rights Fit in With Liberal Ideals</title>
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	<link>http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/09/06/gun-rights-fit-in-with-liberal-ideals/</link>
	<description>Firearm information and politics from a gun rights perspective, with an emphasis on self defense rights.</description>
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		<title>By: LearnAboutGuns.com</title>
		<link>http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/09/06/gun-rights-fit-in-with-liberal-ideals/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>LearnAboutGuns.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/?p=377#comment-413</guid>
		<description>John,

Thanks, and I&#039;m glad you like this website.  I hope you&#039;ll come back and comment more in the future too.

I would say that the Second Amendment clearly states a fundamental, individual right to gun ownership, independent of militia service.  The prefatory clause concerning the militia merely discusses the purpose of the right, and does not serve to limit the right.  The Supreme Court agreed, and this now the law, rather than just my opinion.

The Second Amendment has not yet been incorporated into the 14th Amendment, but I&#039;m confident that it will be in the coming years, and then it will apply against state and local governments, just as our other basic rights so apply.  I discuss incorporation and such in more detail here: http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/10/05/2nd-amendment-incorporation-may-occur-in-the-nordyke-v-alamenda-case/

The Supreme Court in D.C. v. Heller did an excellent job addressing your comments about militia membership, the meaning of &quot;well ordered,&quot; etc.  I would encourage you to read that opinion here: http://www.learnaboutguns.com/img/DC_v_Heller_slipopinion.pdf
I refer you to the opinion not because I wish to dodge your question, but because I can&#039;t hope to match eloquence of Justice Scalia (and I don&#039;t want to spend 45 pages discussing it, which is how long it really takes to reason through the issue, as the Supreme Court did.)  After you read the heller opinion, please feel free to let me know if you&#039;re still not convinced by the Supreme Court&#039;s reasoning on these issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Thanks, and I&#8217;m glad you like this website.  I hope you&#8217;ll come back and comment more in the future too.</p>
<p>I would say that the Second Amendment clearly states a fundamental, individual right to gun ownership, independent of militia service.  The prefatory clause concerning the militia merely discusses the purpose of the right, and does not serve to limit the right.  The Supreme Court agreed, and this now the law, rather than just my opinion.</p>
<p>The Second Amendment has not yet been incorporated into the 14th Amendment, but I&#8217;m confident that it will be in the coming years, and then it will apply against state and local governments, just as our other basic rights so apply.  I discuss incorporation and such in more detail here: <a href="http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/10/05/2nd-amendment-incorporation-may-occur-in-the-nordyke-v-alamenda-case/" rel="nofollow">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/10/05/2nd-amendment-incorporation-may-occur-in-the-nordyke-v-alamenda-case/</a></p>
<p>The Supreme Court in D.C. v. Heller did an excellent job addressing your comments about militia membership, the meaning of &#8220;well ordered,&#8221; etc.  I would encourage you to read that opinion here: <a href="http://www.learnaboutguns.com/img/DC_v_Heller_slipopinion.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/img/DC_v_Heller_slipopinion.pdf</a><br />
I refer you to the opinion not because I wish to dodge your question, but because I can&#8217;t hope to match eloquence of Justice Scalia (and I don&#8217;t want to spend 45 pages discussing it, which is how long it really takes to reason through the issue, as the Supreme Court did.)  After you read the heller opinion, please feel free to let me know if you&#8217;re still not convinced by the Supreme Court&#8217;s reasoning on these issues.</p>
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		<title>By: John F. Reed</title>
		<link>http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/09/06/gun-rights-fit-in-with-liberal-ideals/comment-page-1/#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>John F. Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/?p=377#comment-412</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a liberal and while I support gun ownership I&#039;m not convinced that the Second Amendment is as you say.

I like that you can trace gun-ownership rights through common law and that colonies and states allowed gun-ownership.  I think states should be allowed to decide gun-ownership laws for themselves.

If the founders meant to protect gun-ownership as a fundamental human right why didn&#039;t they make it clear in the Second Amendment?  

From my reading of it the Second Amendment can clearly be said to protect the gun-ownership rights of those partaking in a well-ordered militia.  

When I think about why they would do this.. my best guess is that the Second Amendment is a committment by the federal government to allow localities and states to protect themselves from Native American tribes or Slave Rebellions.

Thats it.  From my reading the Second Amendment does not prohibit gun-ownership.  It just isn&#039;t protected constitutionally and therefore gun-ownership is subject to rule of the majority.

Where I should I look for a history of gun ownership in early U.S. and a telling of how the Second Amendment was treated in that time?  My next question is: do we know if all of the founders agreed to the same meaning of the Second Amendment?

I love this website and based on your lucid advise I&#039;m considering an 18&quot; barrel shotgun for home defense.

Best,

John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a liberal and while I support gun ownership I&#8217;m not convinced that the Second Amendment is as you say.</p>
<p>I like that you can trace gun-ownership rights through common law and that colonies and states allowed gun-ownership.  I think states should be allowed to decide gun-ownership laws for themselves.</p>
<p>If the founders meant to protect gun-ownership as a fundamental human right why didn&#8217;t they make it clear in the Second Amendment?  </p>
<p>From my reading of it the Second Amendment can clearly be said to protect the gun-ownership rights of those partaking in a well-ordered militia.  </p>
<p>When I think about why they would do this.. my best guess is that the Second Amendment is a committment by the federal government to allow localities and states to protect themselves from Native American tribes or Slave Rebellions.</p>
<p>Thats it.  From my reading the Second Amendment does not prohibit gun-ownership.  It just isn&#8217;t protected constitutionally and therefore gun-ownership is subject to rule of the majority.</p>
<p>Where I should I look for a history of gun ownership in early U.S. and a telling of how the Second Amendment was treated in that time?  My next question is: do we know if all of the founders agreed to the same meaning of the Second Amendment?</p>
<p>I love this website and based on your lucid advise I&#8217;m considering an 18&#8243; barrel shotgun for home defense.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>John</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/09/06/gun-rights-fit-in-with-liberal-ideals/comment-page-1/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/?p=377#comment-394</guid>
		<description>Wonderful article. I&#039;m more of a moderate than a liberal but I agree with everything here.

I grew up in Ohio and have been fortunate enough to support pro-gun democrats like Rep Tim Ryan (my congressman until I moved) and Gov Strickland, who helped secure Castle Doctrine for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful article. I&#8217;m more of a moderate than a liberal but I agree with everything here.</p>
<p>I grew up in Ohio and have been fortunate enough to support pro-gun democrats like Rep Tim Ryan (my congressman until I moved) and Gov Strickland, who helped secure Castle Doctrine for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Hanna</title>
		<link>http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/09/06/gun-rights-fit-in-with-liberal-ideals/comment-page-1/#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/?p=377#comment-360</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this well thought out post.  As a liberal, I agree with all of those points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this well thought out post.  As a liberal, I agree with all of those points.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian</title>
		<link>http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/09/06/gun-rights-fit-in-with-liberal-ideals/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 06:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/?p=377#comment-354</guid>
		<description>Freaking signed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freaking signed</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/09/06/gun-rights-fit-in-with-liberal-ideals/comment-page-1/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.learnaboutguns.com/?p=377#comment-313</guid>
		<description>Thank you for pointing this out! I am really dumbfounded with my fellow liberals concerning their knee-jerk hatred of guns. I am a proud pro-choice, pro-science, pro-equality, pro-multicultural, pro-secular liberal, and I carry a gun. None of my other beliefs clash with my opinion about owning a handgun. It (gun ownership) shouldn&#039;t be liberal issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for pointing this out! I am really dumbfounded with my fellow liberals concerning their knee-jerk hatred of guns. I am a proud pro-choice, pro-science, pro-equality, pro-multicultural, pro-secular liberal, and I carry a gun. None of my other beliefs clash with my opinion about owning a handgun. It (gun ownership) shouldn&#8217;t be liberal issue.</p>
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